I sort of agree, except Prasad sat and giggled for months beside ZDogg, who may as well be a phrarma shill. Prasad never said boo, and ZDogg, that guy did some damage while ridiculously staking claim to the "alt-middle". What a joke, except it's not funny.
Prasad's actions speak loudly now though, and thus I am torn on what he really …
I sort of agree, except Prasad sat and giggled for months beside ZDogg, who may as well be a phrarma shill. Prasad never said boo, and ZDogg, that guy did some damage while ridiculously staking claim to the "alt-middle". What a joke, except it's not funny.
Prasad's actions speak loudly now though, and thus I am torn on what he really thinks.
Offit is an lifetime pharma shill. He's only an "anti-vaxxer" because he doesn't want to overreach and kill the golden goose. He knows very well what overreach followed by backlash will do. He wrote a book on the disaster of the polio vaccine fiasco.
offit is an "anti-vaxxer" only because of the change in definition. of course, he's as pro-vax as they come but i believe the insanity of the last 3 years is making him have doubts. he's never going to be an anti-vaxxer. that would be too much to expect.
and honestly, no one has to be an anti-vaxxer. i'm not an anti-vaxxer; i just don't want anyone trying to force me to do something i don't want to do no matter what it is and even if a case could be made that it's for my own good. i'm an adult and i'll make that call, thank you.
but i do question you're saying that ZDogg "did some damage." that's a bit close to the woke belief that words cause harm, that misinformation "kills" people, that speech is dangerous, that Trump actually incited the jan 6 thing. we're all to some extent free adults and i listen to quite a few podcasts and read some substacks. i don't agree with everything everyone says. in truth, guys like ZDogg and Prasad can only influence the people who are influencible.
now if ZDogg was a policy maker like Fauci, an ACIP voter like Offit or a demented President instituting mandates that would cost you your job, i'd say yes, he could do some damage. but in his position as a comedian/doctor, i don't see it.
the reality is, these moderate people are valuable. maybe it's taken them a long time to see what's going on because they're in the belly of the beast. maybe they'll never be a rabid anti-vaxxer; they don't have to be.
they just have to have a sense that something is wrong and have to balls to speak out about it on their platforms. there is an entire world out there of doctors who were to chicken shit to say anything lest they lose their licenses. then there are the hero/martyrs like Paul Marek, Pierre Kory, Bob Sears. those three guys once had more faith in the medical system and in vaccines than they do now.
There is hard evidence that the vast majority of the population trust doctors as an authority on health advice. It is hard evidence that ZDogg has a large following online. It is also hard evidence that ZDogg heavily heavily promoted vaccines for all ages. That caused damage. These are not woke statements.
Any authority giving advice knowing full well their influence is guilty of causing damage. ZDogg, has been pretty silent on those original vaccines for a while now.
I don't find him very moderate TBH. He is not extreme, but he also relies heavily on arguments of authority, a prime example being his awful video attack/review of McCullough and Malone on Rogan.
hmmm, i'm still going to respectfully disagree. i confess i haven't "followed" ZDogg in any meaningful way. i first heard him on Peter Atia's podcast before the pandemic. i did listen to his "awful" video on the Rogan episode and didn't think it was that awful. he said what he thought the two got right and what they got wrong. in other words, he didn't think it was the second coming but he didn't condemn it outright, call for it to be censored, etc. his opinion of those episodes didn't influence my opinion of them.
i don't really care if the vast majority of people trust doctors. that's on them. some comedic doctor you hear on a podcast probably doesn't have great influence on your life decisions. maybe your own personal doctor should have more? i'm pretty sure that people who were going to get the vaccine were going to get it no matter what ZDogg said or didn't say. and the people who weren't could listen to all the vaccine cheerleaders in the world and not be moved.
i listened to TWIV throughout the pandemic and, despite their constant repeating of several slogans (vaccines are how this pandemic ends, never miss an opportunity to vaccinate, children are at low risk but not at no risk, no one is safe until everyone is safe) and their continual insistence that only unvaccinated people are still dying of covid, i didn't race out to get the vaccine and if i did, i could hardly blame them or ZDogg or Rachel Madcow or any of the other thousands of voices, commercials and incentives telling me 24/7 that i should do this. i do have the power to change the channel.
now if my job coerced me (and it did), i like to think that i'd hold to my principles and be fired (which i was) but i don't have children, my mortgages are paid off, i have rental income, a BF with a good pension and i can still earn money with my dress making skills so i can't say i've been tested the way some people were tested.
excuse my woke comment but the crux of the issue is this- if you're going to have standards... the Left says the Right is destroying Democracy, killing people, doing damage and must be censored. they say that any anti-vaccine person is a Trump voting republican, Qanon member, redneck hillbilly who is being paid millions by the Russians to spread "dangerous misinformation" with the purpose of weakening america by killing us off because they've influenced us not to take the life saving vaccine and Facebook should censor them better. they actually said this on TWIV. i listened but didn't run out to get vaccinated.
now the other side is saying that any medical person with a platform who doesn't come flat out and say "these vaccines are horrible; don't ever take them" is doing damage by influencing people. should they be censored? isn't that the next logical step in your argument?
i have two friends who volunteered as Moderna subjects. obviously they believe in the technology but they've never criticized me. they have also not influenced me (they've since had covid a few times). their belief in the vaccine has not in any way made me consider it for myself.
way back a few months into the rollout, my BF- who is not as strong of a personality as i am- asked me if i'd check with the people at my doctor's office for their opinions. my response was "why should i care about their opinions?" but i asked for his comfort. my health coach said that they had already seen two miscarriages and a 69 year old woman who started up with menstrual bleeding; the shots were messing with women's hormones and the practice would not recommend them. she also said that the pfizer and moderna websites were very clear on the limitations of the shots but that the government and the media were pushing them like they were miracles. i thanked her for her candor but honestly, had she said "we won't have you as a patient anymore if you don't take the vaccine" i would have walked out the door of my own volition, not influenced by RFKjr or Del Bigtree.
actually my cousin's wife did spend a year in a wheelchair with GBS after taking the 1976 swine flu vaccine and that was enough for me. perhaps that's why i'm so resistant to advertising of any kind. still if anyone was influenced by ZDogg or any other internet doc, i think they have to take responsibility for being so easily influenced.
and honestly, i enjoy hearing what "the other side" has to say. it sharpens my arguments. i have pretty much given up listening to TWIV; there are only so many insults i can tolerate. i tune in now and then to see how their positions have morphed. i did listen to their most recent Paul Offit interview. he e-mailed them, saying he wanted to come on to explain why he voted against the bi-valent booster. while i differ radically with him, i wouldn't have missed that for the world. hearing him say it seems like the FDA just does whatever pfizer wants made my day!
"i don't really care if the vast majority of people trust doctors"
Hi Caroyln, whether you care isn't the point though. The point is people look up to doctors as authorities and the State gives them protected status as authorities on medicine. That authority comes with responsibility.
"i do have the power to change the channel."
Excellent, something to be proud of given the intense pressure. You were clearly in a small minority of people. You, unlike most, managed to maintain critical thinking skills.
"now the other side is saying... is doing damage by influencing people"
Maybe, but I don't speak for a side, and I used the past tense because I was referring to a very specific period where he was clearly a cheerleader. I can't speak for anyone else, but I do think my case against ZDogg is sound. I also don't think any single person can blame anyone else for their final decision, but he added his voice to the propaganda, and he needs to take responsibility for that. I think doctors like ZDogg do influence people, that is one reason they get paid.
I would never advocate censorship. I'm asking for acknowledgement of his mistakes, before I'll give him any respect. I think we should call a spade a spade. They were pharma cheerleaders and until they acknowledge that issue, no respect.
I love Peter Atia BTW.
"i did listen to his "awful" video on the Rogan episode and didn't think it was that awful. "
Did you notice he used ad hominem and arguments of authority instead of addressing the points made by the doctors? That is the sign of illogical reasoning. Manipulative. Not respectful.
"people look up to doctors as authorities and the State gives them protected status as authorities on medicine." well, California is certainly taking that away and anyone who still has trust in the medical system at this point might be an irredeemable fool.
"Did you notice he used ad hominem and arguments of authority" maybe i'll find it and listen to it again.
"I think doctors like ZDogg do influence people, that is one reason they get paid." but doctors like ZDogg have had their podcasts for a long time; it's not like they cropped up just to act as propaganda arms for the US government's public health policy. they've had podcasts on various topics and had on guests that you may have found interesting. and they don't "get paid." they are paid by their listeners, some who find them interesting and entertaining enough to subscribe to get more than what is offered for free (i'm too cheap). both ZDogg and Prasad have been in the medical field for years and i'm sure that they took vaccines for granted. now if it turns out that they got funds from the government to sneak certain messages into their podcasts, as i'd bet TWIV did, that would be unforgivable and in that case, even an apology wouldn't do it for me.
i have no real problem with someone saying "i think everyone in a certain risk category should get vaccinated" as long as that's what they believed and they weren't getting paid to say it. and i have no problem with them, later as they saw more things, wondering "WTF is going on with these vaccines?" i don't think that's hypocrisy or demands a mea culpa.
i DO have a problem with a guy like Piers Morgan saying "strip them of their rights, imprison them, forcibly vaccinate them" and then later, realizing that there might be a price to pay for such behavior, trying to justify it- "well, with the information i had at the time..." and "the science has changed." that's bullshit and no apology is sufficient. this guy revealed himself as a dark soul. he would have been first in line to load jews onto boxcars. who would ever listen to him again?
"sign of illogical reasoning"
the greatest example of illogical reasoning i ever heard was on TWIV. one week they would interview peter daszak who talked about how oh so easy it was to manipulate a virus and the next week, someone would ask about the lab leak possibility and they would say "oh human beings aren't smart enough to make anything as clever as sars cv-2. i'd think huh? trust me, they're still talking about natural origin.
"I love Peter Atia BTW."
i especially loved it when Atia came around to the lab leak hypothesis in his interview with katherine eban. (do you remember Atia saying that the vaccines were great and so effective that you shouldn't have any cancer screenings after getting them? do you remember him later on saying that he would not get his children vaccinated and he moved his family to texas? but i have yet to hear him apologize for saying that the vaccines were great. i wonder if he's having a bit of buyer's remorse. he took a position- for himself- based on his medical training and later on, he saw that something was fishy and adjusted accordingly).
i am especially disappointed in eric topol. that's who i can't forgive. in his podcast with atia, he talked about how he was tortured, fired, threatened (by MERCK) after pointing out the safety signal for VIOXX. atia thought it was a good drug that was unjustly taken off the market but topol made him see it differently since he had lived through it.
then i heard that very same topol (who i respected and bought his book) accusing bret weinstein of spreading "dangerous misinformation" that is "killing people" with that insufferable and unbearable sam harris.
as if death threats only matter when they happen to you, dr. topol but they're fine for everyone else, provided you don't like them.
then harris said on triggernometry that it didn't matter if hunter biden's laptop contained photos of dead children in the basement, it needed to be kept hidden because keeping trump out of office justified anything!!! YIKES!!!!!
i expect ZDogg might admit that he got some things wrong one of these days and it's ok to be wrong as long as you didn't threaten to fire or kill people who didn't think you were right. but there's something oddly communist about making people recant their past sins. as for topol and harris, they can apologize till the cows come home. they're dead to me. which doesn't mean that they might not say something intelligent that i can agree with one of these days. but as examples of humanity, no way.
"maintain critical thinking skills"
i still think people have to take some responsibility. just as i can't respect women who blame the "patriarchy," BLM blaming systemic racism or ancestral slavery or any of the other career victims blaming someone or something else for their failures, i can't blame guys like ZDogg and Prasad who i didn't hear pressure anyone to do anything. now, like i said, i haven't heard much ZDogg and i mostly read Prasad so maybe they did urge people to get vaccinated. i would expect them to do that, steeped as they are in conventional medicine (much like aseem malhotra who never questioned vaccines in general and covid vaccines specifically until his father died. we're not going to ask him to apologize, are we? isn't losing his father enough? do we really want to call him a shill for the drug companies- even though he did urge people to get vaccinated- when he's probably getting plenty of heat from those same companies and his wikipedia page will be rewritten to tar him as a "spreader of dangerous misinformation" and he's certainly jeopardized his career?) but there's a big difference between urging without teeth and coercive urging at gunpoint. whatever you think, they're just talking. a lot of people tried to blame joe rogan for all vaccine hesitancy but really, he's just a guy talking. and he was 9 when i decided against flu shots so i don't think he had that much to do with it.
we all listened to biden warn us about the winter of severe illness and death. some of us marched right out and got vaccinated. some of us threw our shoes at the television set. some of us (me) used it as a christmas card. ZDogg can give his opinion and there's no cost to me if i choose to disregard it. biden sets policy and has the army behind him to enforce those policies. that's not constitutional but since when has that stopped any of them lately?
i think the ultimate question is: if you had a fantasy jail, who's in there for life and who isn't? fauci yes, ZDogg no. and sadly, as much as i would enjoy it, even sam harris hasn't done anything criminally wrong that would earn him a cell in my dream prison.
so we can disagree and enjoy this friendly banter and both come away enriched, i hope.
I sort of agree, except Prasad sat and giggled for months beside ZDogg, who may as well be a phrarma shill. Prasad never said boo, and ZDogg, that guy did some damage while ridiculously staking claim to the "alt-middle". What a joke, except it's not funny.
Prasad's actions speak loudly now though, and thus I am torn on what he really thinks.
Offit is an lifetime pharma shill. He's only an "anti-vaxxer" because he doesn't want to overreach and kill the golden goose. He knows very well what overreach followed by backlash will do. He wrote a book on the disaster of the polio vaccine fiasco.
offit is an "anti-vaxxer" only because of the change in definition. of course, he's as pro-vax as they come but i believe the insanity of the last 3 years is making him have doubts. he's never going to be an anti-vaxxer. that would be too much to expect.
and honestly, no one has to be an anti-vaxxer. i'm not an anti-vaxxer; i just don't want anyone trying to force me to do something i don't want to do no matter what it is and even if a case could be made that it's for my own good. i'm an adult and i'll make that call, thank you.
but i do question you're saying that ZDogg "did some damage." that's a bit close to the woke belief that words cause harm, that misinformation "kills" people, that speech is dangerous, that Trump actually incited the jan 6 thing. we're all to some extent free adults and i listen to quite a few podcasts and read some substacks. i don't agree with everything everyone says. in truth, guys like ZDogg and Prasad can only influence the people who are influencible.
now if ZDogg was a policy maker like Fauci, an ACIP voter like Offit or a demented President instituting mandates that would cost you your job, i'd say yes, he could do some damage. but in his position as a comedian/doctor, i don't see it.
the reality is, these moderate people are valuable. maybe it's taken them a long time to see what's going on because they're in the belly of the beast. maybe they'll never be a rabid anti-vaxxer; they don't have to be.
they just have to have a sense that something is wrong and have to balls to speak out about it on their platforms. there is an entire world out there of doctors who were to chicken shit to say anything lest they lose their licenses. then there are the hero/martyrs like Paul Marek, Pierre Kory, Bob Sears. those three guys once had more faith in the medical system and in vaccines than they do now.
There is hard evidence that the vast majority of the population trust doctors as an authority on health advice. It is hard evidence that ZDogg has a large following online. It is also hard evidence that ZDogg heavily heavily promoted vaccines for all ages. That caused damage. These are not woke statements.
Any authority giving advice knowing full well their influence is guilty of causing damage. ZDogg, has been pretty silent on those original vaccines for a while now.
I don't find him very moderate TBH. He is not extreme, but he also relies heavily on arguments of authority, a prime example being his awful video attack/review of McCullough and Malone on Rogan.
hmmm, i'm still going to respectfully disagree. i confess i haven't "followed" ZDogg in any meaningful way. i first heard him on Peter Atia's podcast before the pandemic. i did listen to his "awful" video on the Rogan episode and didn't think it was that awful. he said what he thought the two got right and what they got wrong. in other words, he didn't think it was the second coming but he didn't condemn it outright, call for it to be censored, etc. his opinion of those episodes didn't influence my opinion of them.
i don't really care if the vast majority of people trust doctors. that's on them. some comedic doctor you hear on a podcast probably doesn't have great influence on your life decisions. maybe your own personal doctor should have more? i'm pretty sure that people who were going to get the vaccine were going to get it no matter what ZDogg said or didn't say. and the people who weren't could listen to all the vaccine cheerleaders in the world and not be moved.
i listened to TWIV throughout the pandemic and, despite their constant repeating of several slogans (vaccines are how this pandemic ends, never miss an opportunity to vaccinate, children are at low risk but not at no risk, no one is safe until everyone is safe) and their continual insistence that only unvaccinated people are still dying of covid, i didn't race out to get the vaccine and if i did, i could hardly blame them or ZDogg or Rachel Madcow or any of the other thousands of voices, commercials and incentives telling me 24/7 that i should do this. i do have the power to change the channel.
now if my job coerced me (and it did), i like to think that i'd hold to my principles and be fired (which i was) but i don't have children, my mortgages are paid off, i have rental income, a BF with a good pension and i can still earn money with my dress making skills so i can't say i've been tested the way some people were tested.
excuse my woke comment but the crux of the issue is this- if you're going to have standards... the Left says the Right is destroying Democracy, killing people, doing damage and must be censored. they say that any anti-vaccine person is a Trump voting republican, Qanon member, redneck hillbilly who is being paid millions by the Russians to spread "dangerous misinformation" with the purpose of weakening america by killing us off because they've influenced us not to take the life saving vaccine and Facebook should censor them better. they actually said this on TWIV. i listened but didn't run out to get vaccinated.
now the other side is saying that any medical person with a platform who doesn't come flat out and say "these vaccines are horrible; don't ever take them" is doing damage by influencing people. should they be censored? isn't that the next logical step in your argument?
i have two friends who volunteered as Moderna subjects. obviously they believe in the technology but they've never criticized me. they have also not influenced me (they've since had covid a few times). their belief in the vaccine has not in any way made me consider it for myself.
way back a few months into the rollout, my BF- who is not as strong of a personality as i am- asked me if i'd check with the people at my doctor's office for their opinions. my response was "why should i care about their opinions?" but i asked for his comfort. my health coach said that they had already seen two miscarriages and a 69 year old woman who started up with menstrual bleeding; the shots were messing with women's hormones and the practice would not recommend them. she also said that the pfizer and moderna websites were very clear on the limitations of the shots but that the government and the media were pushing them like they were miracles. i thanked her for her candor but honestly, had she said "we won't have you as a patient anymore if you don't take the vaccine" i would have walked out the door of my own volition, not influenced by RFKjr or Del Bigtree.
actually my cousin's wife did spend a year in a wheelchair with GBS after taking the 1976 swine flu vaccine and that was enough for me. perhaps that's why i'm so resistant to advertising of any kind. still if anyone was influenced by ZDogg or any other internet doc, i think they have to take responsibility for being so easily influenced.
and honestly, i enjoy hearing what "the other side" has to say. it sharpens my arguments. i have pretty much given up listening to TWIV; there are only so many insults i can tolerate. i tune in now and then to see how their positions have morphed. i did listen to their most recent Paul Offit interview. he e-mailed them, saying he wanted to come on to explain why he voted against the bi-valent booster. while i differ radically with him, i wouldn't have missed that for the world. hearing him say it seems like the FDA just does whatever pfizer wants made my day!
"i don't really care if the vast majority of people trust doctors"
Hi Caroyln, whether you care isn't the point though. The point is people look up to doctors as authorities and the State gives them protected status as authorities on medicine. That authority comes with responsibility.
"i do have the power to change the channel."
Excellent, something to be proud of given the intense pressure. You were clearly in a small minority of people. You, unlike most, managed to maintain critical thinking skills.
"now the other side is saying... is doing damage by influencing people"
Maybe, but I don't speak for a side, and I used the past tense because I was referring to a very specific period where he was clearly a cheerleader. I can't speak for anyone else, but I do think my case against ZDogg is sound. I also don't think any single person can blame anyone else for their final decision, but he added his voice to the propaganda, and he needs to take responsibility for that. I think doctors like ZDogg do influence people, that is one reason they get paid.
I would never advocate censorship. I'm asking for acknowledgement of his mistakes, before I'll give him any respect. I think we should call a spade a spade. They were pharma cheerleaders and until they acknowledge that issue, no respect.
I love Peter Atia BTW.
"i did listen to his "awful" video on the Rogan episode and didn't think it was that awful. "
Did you notice he used ad hominem and arguments of authority instead of addressing the points made by the doctors? That is the sign of illogical reasoning. Manipulative. Not respectful.
"people look up to doctors as authorities and the State gives them protected status as authorities on medicine." well, California is certainly taking that away and anyone who still has trust in the medical system at this point might be an irredeemable fool.
"Did you notice he used ad hominem and arguments of authority" maybe i'll find it and listen to it again.
"I think doctors like ZDogg do influence people, that is one reason they get paid." but doctors like ZDogg have had their podcasts for a long time; it's not like they cropped up just to act as propaganda arms for the US government's public health policy. they've had podcasts on various topics and had on guests that you may have found interesting. and they don't "get paid." they are paid by their listeners, some who find them interesting and entertaining enough to subscribe to get more than what is offered for free (i'm too cheap). both ZDogg and Prasad have been in the medical field for years and i'm sure that they took vaccines for granted. now if it turns out that they got funds from the government to sneak certain messages into their podcasts, as i'd bet TWIV did, that would be unforgivable and in that case, even an apology wouldn't do it for me.
i have no real problem with someone saying "i think everyone in a certain risk category should get vaccinated" as long as that's what they believed and they weren't getting paid to say it. and i have no problem with them, later as they saw more things, wondering "WTF is going on with these vaccines?" i don't think that's hypocrisy or demands a mea culpa.
i DO have a problem with a guy like Piers Morgan saying "strip them of their rights, imprison them, forcibly vaccinate them" and then later, realizing that there might be a price to pay for such behavior, trying to justify it- "well, with the information i had at the time..." and "the science has changed." that's bullshit and no apology is sufficient. this guy revealed himself as a dark soul. he would have been first in line to load jews onto boxcars. who would ever listen to him again?
"sign of illogical reasoning"
the greatest example of illogical reasoning i ever heard was on TWIV. one week they would interview peter daszak who talked about how oh so easy it was to manipulate a virus and the next week, someone would ask about the lab leak possibility and they would say "oh human beings aren't smart enough to make anything as clever as sars cv-2. i'd think huh? trust me, they're still talking about natural origin.
"I love Peter Atia BTW."
i especially loved it when Atia came around to the lab leak hypothesis in his interview with katherine eban. (do you remember Atia saying that the vaccines were great and so effective that you shouldn't have any cancer screenings after getting them? do you remember him later on saying that he would not get his children vaccinated and he moved his family to texas? but i have yet to hear him apologize for saying that the vaccines were great. i wonder if he's having a bit of buyer's remorse. he took a position- for himself- based on his medical training and later on, he saw that something was fishy and adjusted accordingly).
i am especially disappointed in eric topol. that's who i can't forgive. in his podcast with atia, he talked about how he was tortured, fired, threatened (by MERCK) after pointing out the safety signal for VIOXX. atia thought it was a good drug that was unjustly taken off the market but topol made him see it differently since he had lived through it.
then i heard that very same topol (who i respected and bought his book) accusing bret weinstein of spreading "dangerous misinformation" that is "killing people" with that insufferable and unbearable sam harris.
as if death threats only matter when they happen to you, dr. topol but they're fine for everyone else, provided you don't like them.
then harris said on triggernometry that it didn't matter if hunter biden's laptop contained photos of dead children in the basement, it needed to be kept hidden because keeping trump out of office justified anything!!! YIKES!!!!!
i expect ZDogg might admit that he got some things wrong one of these days and it's ok to be wrong as long as you didn't threaten to fire or kill people who didn't think you were right. but there's something oddly communist about making people recant their past sins. as for topol and harris, they can apologize till the cows come home. they're dead to me. which doesn't mean that they might not say something intelligent that i can agree with one of these days. but as examples of humanity, no way.
"maintain critical thinking skills"
i still think people have to take some responsibility. just as i can't respect women who blame the "patriarchy," BLM blaming systemic racism or ancestral slavery or any of the other career victims blaming someone or something else for their failures, i can't blame guys like ZDogg and Prasad who i didn't hear pressure anyone to do anything. now, like i said, i haven't heard much ZDogg and i mostly read Prasad so maybe they did urge people to get vaccinated. i would expect them to do that, steeped as they are in conventional medicine (much like aseem malhotra who never questioned vaccines in general and covid vaccines specifically until his father died. we're not going to ask him to apologize, are we? isn't losing his father enough? do we really want to call him a shill for the drug companies- even though he did urge people to get vaccinated- when he's probably getting plenty of heat from those same companies and his wikipedia page will be rewritten to tar him as a "spreader of dangerous misinformation" and he's certainly jeopardized his career?) but there's a big difference between urging without teeth and coercive urging at gunpoint. whatever you think, they're just talking. a lot of people tried to blame joe rogan for all vaccine hesitancy but really, he's just a guy talking. and he was 9 when i decided against flu shots so i don't think he had that much to do with it.
we all listened to biden warn us about the winter of severe illness and death. some of us marched right out and got vaccinated. some of us threw our shoes at the television set. some of us (me) used it as a christmas card. ZDogg can give his opinion and there's no cost to me if i choose to disregard it. biden sets policy and has the army behind him to enforce those policies. that's not constitutional but since when has that stopped any of them lately?
i think the ultimate question is: if you had a fantasy jail, who's in there for life and who isn't? fauci yes, ZDogg no. and sadly, as much as i would enjoy it, even sam harris hasn't done anything criminally wrong that would earn him a cell in my dream prison.
so we can disagree and enjoy this friendly banter and both come away enriched, i hope.