I wonder if it makes me more, less, or indifferently moral that I accepted we are all murderous, long ago, and find the hypocrisy and false righteousness more disgusting than the murderousness.
The Milgram and Stanford prison "experiments", and indeed, the War of the Worlds incident (the video of the Milgram shows these test subjects had completely stopped taking the experiment seriously by the time they were delivering "lethal" shocks) were fraudulent psychological operations. The real experiment is not whether people will conform, it's whether people can be induced to have such a low opinion of others that they will *believe* that anyone can easily be coerced into being a monster, imbecile, or unthinking automaton.
People can be pushed to murderous behavior by abuse and mistreatment, but human nature is to cooperate and compromise until they're pushed off a cliff.
Even recent animal studies show that rats and other animals (including primates) are generally empathetic and altruistic creatures. They are quite capable of sharing and cooperating, even with strangers, when the is no immediate material benefit for them.
I have seen at least as much evidence to the contrary in humans. I have also seen rats and other primates tear each other to pieces because their environment has been stressed.
I honestly don't know. When I look at the way humanity behaved before those things, I would not say our fundamental behavior was much better.
I think the notion that this or that is "messed up" in the first place is purely a cultural overlay, and in the absence of ANY cultural overlay, we'd do a ton more raping and killing.
Earlier cultures did things we often refer to as unthinkably evil. Does it hold that earlier people were largely evil, then, or had different values objectively no more "messed up" than anything else?
I don't think there are simple answers to these questions, but I've seen firsthand how humans act in stressful environments in the absence of much "nurture," and it's pretty damn rotten.
I'm certain that's true, we're empathetic and altruistic, in some sense of societal norms and norming, yet one need only look at Scripture to know that the "heart is desperately wicked" and need only read Frankl to know "the best of us did not survive."
Wow. A very grim outlook. It maybe true especially for Europeans. Let us consider the Aztec. Human sacrifice, terrible no doubt. But once Cortes and his merry Spaniards had conquered the Aztec the population really tanked
From that bastion of truthiness wikipedia---
Archeologist William Sanders based an estimate on archeological evidence of dwellings, arriving at an estimate of 1–1.2 million inhabitants in the Valley of Mexico.[141] Whitmore used a computer simulation model based on colonial censuses to arrive at an estimate of 1.5 million for the Basin in 1519, and an estimate of 16 million for all of Mexico.[142] Depending on the estimations of the population in 1519 the scale of the decline in the 16th century, range from around 50 percent to around 90 percent – with Sanders's and Whitmore's estimates being around 90 percent.
So once again the Europeans bring grim reality to the Indians of North and South America.
Oh yes and China in the 20th and 21st centuries brought into the economic middle class nearly 400,000,000 citizens formerly impoverished by European colonialism and pushing opium.
At that same time the middle class of the US has nearly vanished. As you have said we only need to look at scripture. That scripture is what drives a lot of the psychology of the west. Not the east. Or pre-Columbian north and south america.
If we cast a wider gaze we may arrive at different outlooks.
Oh yeah? Lets use a mother nature abuse scenario and 'generalize' famine. Take all of the easily and readily available food out of your little mouse utopia for two days and then throw a single morsel into the cage. Let's see what they will do for that "immediate material benefit". If you've never missed a meal, you may not have a clue.
Aug 8, 2022·edited Aug 8, 2022Liked by Mathew Crawford
Well it is a world of difference if the milk is raw (as we had as children) rather than pasteurized. Raw milk will almost digest itself. Healthy cow, healthy environment healthy milk.
Butter too is amazing when made from raw cream.
Our cow's milk was a creamy yellow well white yellow. The butter brilliant yellow the color of egg yoke. Just so different from butter bought at the store. Much better for you too.
Brown Swiss and Jersey (and Guernsey) are similar. Jersey are more productive but Swiss are less demanding grazers. Everyone in that family produces A2 milk, which differs from A1 by a single amino acid that makes it more bioavailable. You can Google it yourself for a lot more detail.
There are some tough facts of life, and we can and should accept them. Of course, that is different than kicking people while they're down, which is what most pandemic medicine feels like to me.
I haven’t seen recent mention of batch differences that could hypothetically have a geographic or socio-economic pattern? I wonder if such variance in ‘hot shots’ or vax composition has been ruled out?
"Of course, with the right therapeutic tinkering and lot distributions all kinds of eugenics horrors may be foisted on a range of demographics and geographies. Staggering out said AE’s and all-cause mortalities can be rather easily programmed."
"And this batch lot tracking is corroborated in the following:
…we nonetheless detect significant seasonally unambiguous local temporal associations between increases in number of vaccinated residents and synchronous increases in all-cause mortality, for certain age groups, and most prominently in certain states.
[…']
The said local temporal association is most prominent for the 25-64 years age group in Southern states — which typically have the smallest vaccination rates — including: Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama."
I believe lockdowns and COVID treatment protocols caused much of the excess deaths in 2020.
In 2021 there was some vaccine efficacy against COVID, as well as increased use of IVM among the wealthy. Lockdown deaths were reduced but replaced by vaccine deaths, most noticeably Dec 2020-Feb 2021 when seniors were targeted for vaccination and starting from August 2021 -February 2022 which was the booster phase of the vaccine operation. Many of the deaths went down as COVID due to the vaccines immune- suppression of the population and hospitals continued use of harmful NIH protocols
From March 2022 we see less COVID deaths and an apparent improvement in lower excess deaths down to 5%. This is explained in 2 parts
1. Less testing in hospitals (many test only if symptomatic), and an effort to distinguish dying from COVID to dying with COVID, especially in those who were vaxxed.
2. Excess deaths are still calculated using 2017-2019 averages. With 1.2 million excess deaths in the past 2 years many deaths were pulled forward and the dry kindle burned. There should be fewer expected deaths. Excess deaths are higher than calculated in the last few months.
There has also been reduced vax uptake. Once this increases in the fall as boosters with new vax will be mandated, we should see another wave of death
So are you saying that the vaccine roll out that resulted in higher ACM was predominately in the poorer economic strata in the Southern part of the United States? This could be seen as targeting the poor, if I understood correctly. Thanks.
OMG this is huge. Yes, walk through the steps. But wow, I really think you are on to something.
Thanks for your help with the next article!
👍🏽
"Stupid Trumpers More Likely To Die Like They Deserve, Vaccinated Progressives More Likely To Enjoy Comfy Hospital Stay, Brownie Dessert."
"Thank Moloch that Trump came around to provide me some justification for my murderous impulses."
I wonder if it makes me more, less, or indifferently moral that I accepted we are all murderous, long ago, and find the hypocrisy and false righteousness more disgusting than the murderousness.
"we are all murderous"- I disagree. Mr. Crawford summed it up nicely in "Lord of the Fears" https://roundingtheearth.substack.com/p/lord-of-the-fears
The Milgram and Stanford prison "experiments", and indeed, the War of the Worlds incident (the video of the Milgram shows these test subjects had completely stopped taking the experiment seriously by the time they were delivering "lethal" shocks) were fraudulent psychological operations. The real experiment is not whether people will conform, it's whether people can be induced to have such a low opinion of others that they will *believe* that anyone can easily be coerced into being a monster, imbecile, or unthinking automaton.
People can be pushed to murderous behavior by abuse and mistreatment, but human nature is to cooperate and compromise until they're pushed off a cliff.
Even recent animal studies show that rats and other animals (including primates) are generally empathetic and altruistic creatures. They are quite capable of sharing and cooperating, even with strangers, when the is no immediate material benefit for them.
I have seen at least as much evidence to the contrary in humans. I have also seen rats and other primates tear each other to pieces because their environment has been stressed.
You may be talking past one another. Yes, people do messed up things. But is that more nature or nurture?
What would happen if we abandoned the Prussian educational model, and excessive governance?
I honestly don't know. When I look at the way humanity behaved before those things, I would not say our fundamental behavior was much better.
I think the notion that this or that is "messed up" in the first place is purely a cultural overlay, and in the absence of ANY cultural overlay, we'd do a ton more raping and killing.
Earlier cultures did things we often refer to as unthinkably evil. Does it hold that earlier people were largely evil, then, or had different values objectively no more "messed up" than anything else?
I don't think there are simple answers to these questions, but I've seen firsthand how humans act in stressful environments in the absence of much "nurture," and it's pretty damn rotten.
I'm certain that's true, we're empathetic and altruistic, in some sense of societal norms and norming, yet one need only look at Scripture to know that the "heart is desperately wicked" and need only read Frankl to know "the best of us did not survive."
In the end, pride, power, and survival will out.
Wow. A very grim outlook. It maybe true especially for Europeans. Let us consider the Aztec. Human sacrifice, terrible no doubt. But once Cortes and his merry Spaniards had conquered the Aztec the population really tanked
From that bastion of truthiness wikipedia---
Archeologist William Sanders based an estimate on archeological evidence of dwellings, arriving at an estimate of 1–1.2 million inhabitants in the Valley of Mexico.[141] Whitmore used a computer simulation model based on colonial censuses to arrive at an estimate of 1.5 million for the Basin in 1519, and an estimate of 16 million for all of Mexico.[142] Depending on the estimations of the population in 1519 the scale of the decline in the 16th century, range from around 50 percent to around 90 percent – with Sanders's and Whitmore's estimates being around 90 percent.
So once again the Europeans bring grim reality to the Indians of North and South America.
Oh yes and China in the 20th and 21st centuries brought into the economic middle class nearly 400,000,000 citizens formerly impoverished by European colonialism and pushing opium.
At that same time the middle class of the US has nearly vanished. As you have said we only need to look at scripture. That scripture is what drives a lot of the psychology of the west. Not the east. Or pre-Columbian north and south america.
If we cast a wider gaze we may arrive at different outlooks.
Oh yeah? Lets use a mother nature abuse scenario and 'generalize' famine. Take all of the easily and readily available food out of your little mouse utopia for two days and then throw a single morsel into the cage. Let's see what they will do for that "immediate material benefit". If you've never missed a meal, you may not have a clue.
I hear that, lol.
Given the imbalance in likes between our sympathetic responses, I get the sense a lot of people didn't realize the sarcasm in mine.
HI Guttermouth,
I sure missed your sarcasm. Thanks for the tip. I will re-read with that in mind.
peace
Yes, we know how it will pan out, but your diligence in providing data, documentation, and proof is much appreciated.
Remember when we weren't allowed to draw parallels between Sweden and England COVID because of confounders?
Also, don't introduce more than one food at a time to your toddler, but stick em with these six vaccines at once.
Hell, I remember when no one thought twice about feeding toddlers- even babies- cows' milk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJyEbLuFOdU
(You can just skip to 4:00 if watching vintage Sesame Street isn't your thing.)
Well it is a world of difference if the milk is raw (as we had as children) rather than pasteurized. Raw milk will almost digest itself. Healthy cow, healthy environment healthy milk.
Butter too is amazing when made from raw cream.
Our cow's milk was a creamy yellow well white yellow. The butter brilliant yellow the color of egg yoke. Just so different from butter bought at the store. Much better for you too.
When milk fat is naturally yellow it is usually because it's "A2" type. Mostly from Jersey cows these days.
Didn't know that. Still don't know what A2 type means. Are you another Mathew Crawford? I appreciate the education.
Our cow was Brown Swiss. But Jersey was a very prominent dairy cow until the fat scare. I looked up A2 and understand now. Thank you again.
Brown Swiss and Jersey (and Guernsey) are similar. Jersey are more productive but Swiss are less demanding grazers. Everyone in that family produces A2 milk, which differs from A1 by a single amino acid that makes it more bioavailable. You can Google it yourself for a lot more detail.
I know of a number of folks (wealthy) who managed to 'get papers' for a price.
How many managed to pay either their doc to squirt it on floor, or to provide papers/the code?
(or, I like to think large batches were saline, and those landed in wealthier regions)
Just some random thoughts. I wouldn't put anything past the eugenic folks.
I know. I've had many discussions about "the going rate for a vaccine card", and that obviously skews toward people with money.
I believe TC has already done this here https://inumero.substack.com/p/we-dont-know-if-covid-vaccinations
This isn't exactly what I'm going, but it's quite helpful. Thank you.
rich get richer & poor get deader
There are some tough facts of life, and we can and should accept them. Of course, that is different than kicking people while they're down, which is what most pandemic medicine feels like to me.
I haven’t seen recent mention of batch differences that could hypothetically have a geographic or socio-economic pattern? I wonder if such variance in ‘hot shots’ or vax composition has been ruled out?
Hmm....just came across this bit"
"Of course, with the right therapeutic tinkering and lot distributions all kinds of eugenics horrors may be foisted on a range of demographics and geographies. Staggering out said AE’s and all-cause mortalities can be rather easily programmed."
https://2ndsmartestguyintheworld.substack.com/p/thoughts-on-dr-mike-yeadons-respiratory?utm_source=%2Fprofile%2F40525631-2nd-smartest-guy-in-the-world&utm_medium=reader2
more 'problematic' batches sent to counties of 'less desirable' humans????
and more from another substack:
"And this batch lot tracking is corroborated in the following:
…we nonetheless detect significant seasonally unambiguous local temporal associations between increases in number of vaccinated residents and synchronous increases in all-cause mortality, for certain age groups, and most prominently in certain states.
[…']
The said local temporal association is most prominent for the 25-64 years age group in Southern states — which typically have the smallest vaccination rates — including: Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama."
https://2ndsmartestguyintheworld.substack.com/p/covid-period-mass-vaccination-campaign?utm_source=%2Fprofile%2F40525631-2nd-smartest-guy-in-the-world&utm_medium=reader2
I believe lockdowns and COVID treatment protocols caused much of the excess deaths in 2020.
In 2021 there was some vaccine efficacy against COVID, as well as increased use of IVM among the wealthy. Lockdown deaths were reduced but replaced by vaccine deaths, most noticeably Dec 2020-Feb 2021 when seniors were targeted for vaccination and starting from August 2021 -February 2022 which was the booster phase of the vaccine operation. Many of the deaths went down as COVID due to the vaccines immune- suppression of the population and hospitals continued use of harmful NIH protocols
From March 2022 we see less COVID deaths and an apparent improvement in lower excess deaths down to 5%. This is explained in 2 parts
1. Less testing in hospitals (many test only if symptomatic), and an effort to distinguish dying from COVID to dying with COVID, especially in those who were vaxxed.
2. Excess deaths are still calculated using 2017-2019 averages. With 1.2 million excess deaths in the past 2 years many deaths were pulled forward and the dry kindle burned. There should be fewer expected deaths. Excess deaths are higher than calculated in the last few months.
There has also been reduced vax uptake. Once this increases in the fall as boosters with new vax will be mandated, we should see another wave of death
So are you saying that the vaccine roll out that resulted in higher ACM was predominately in the poorer economic strata in the Southern part of the United States? This could be seen as targeting the poor, if I understood correctly. Thanks.
No. Wealthier counties all over were generally more vaccinated. Mandates made sure of it.
Improved standards of living, and better public sanitation have always been associated with reducing infection transmission. https://rootsofprogress.org/weapons-against-infectious-disease