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Jan 7·edited Jan 7Pinned

Reminder on good etiquette: It is appropriate to read the article to make sure that your comments "at" me relate to what I wrote, and not what you imagined might be written other than what you would have written. If you're uncertain, think, "I should quote a part of the article that I'm responding to in order to be certain that I understand the difference between the article and my biases filling in blanks."

Important observations:

* I made no argument for or against vitamins/supplements in general in this article (though readers of RTE can find many dozens of articles where some of that is covered).

* I made no argument regarding the quality of TWC's vitamins/supplements.

Anyone confused by this may want to read the article carefully a second (or first) time.

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Fixed typo: "First, understand that I'm not calling anyone's supplements "overpriced". "

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Is it true that the Wellness Company was debanked a few months back? Also, they are employing Doctors that have possibly lost livlihoods for being Covid Canceled? If true, one could somewhat justify high cost of products due to the lawfare milieu one would expect this company to be navigating. Dont know if that is the case, or why it wouldnt be.

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Jan 7·edited Jan 7Author

I know nothing about the banking..

It is up to each person as to how much they value a product and support of a person, product, or company.

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Shouldn't lowering the price increase market share enough to generate more profit?

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Jan 7·edited Jan 7Author

That depends on the amount of market share captured. That's why the observation of the niche ecosystem is relevant. Essentially, this plandemonium included the creation of artificial barriers, and even media ecosystems that walled people into distinct markets where monopolies could be established---but only if additional competition was not introduced.

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Jan 7Liked by Mathew Crawford

Just a “Thank you!” for all your work. Always look forward to your writing :)

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Thank you.

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Thanks for thanks for the thanks.

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Thank you.

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How does real innovation breakthrough? Do I spend my scarce resources on Health Insurance, Life Insurance, Retirement/Investments, Food, Housing, or Education? I think RTE has provided some of the best education on getting to the truth but the fight against the "tyranny of experts" and the pedagogical establishment has many layers. Truth, Beauty, and Goodness are the constants to finding TRUE LOVE. Mathew, thank you for always asking great questions!!

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It’s always been a odd market. So many supplement products evolved out of MLM models. Proprietary blends, unknown production quality and unreliable regulatory rules give everyone the opportunity to say “my product is superior” and charge disconnected from reality prices.

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author

1. True.

2. My product is superior. ;-)

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True.

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Under no circumstances do I want FDA regulation. Only high quality third party verification.

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Jan 7·edited Jan 7

Labdoor

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It's good practice to never buy any supplement with a "proprietary blend" on the label.

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Shawn, as a nutritionist I am skeptical of many proprietary blends b/c you have no clue as to how much of each single nutrient is in that blend. It may be a minuscule amount. However, one professional company that uses proprietary blends that I do like, use and have seen some positive results with is Systemic Formulas and they specialize in herbal remedies. So I used to think as you and avoid all proprietary blends but I’ve changed my stance.

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I totally understand the need for an enterprise (or even a single cell) to protect itself. Word of mouth of positive results does serve a form of evidence for sure. But not for me. It's a core principle thing.

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Sourced meat from local farmers- raw milk and dairy products- goat when possible- eat your spinach/kale/chard/bok choi, etc.- exercise every day outside- drink lots of non-flouridated water- eat legumes and beans/beets/sweet potatoes (sp?)- get proper sleep- avoid doctors at all costs except for emergencies such as broken bones- avoid processed everything etc.

Try the above and you'll likely find you will rarely get sick and won't need much else to maintain health.

Full admission: I'm not a doctor nor do I play one on TV.

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I 100% agree. But alas, in light of capitalism, if people will pay it, is it charging too much?

Essentially, an item is worth to me as much as I will, or can, pay. Sucks, but is true. So, hey people.... Let's all stop paying for it all! Perhaps they'll lower the prices then.

Also, to the question of is it malice or stupidity, we turn to HANLON’S RAZOR: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

That said, I do believe malice and evil in this world are now so prevalent that perhaps the razor should be reversed.

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"But alas, in light of capitalism, if people will pay it, is it charging too much?"

There is no answer to this question.

Are the Malones making too much when they make well over half a million off their substack (that's what they told me Oct 2022, anyhow)?

Nobody can judge what "too much" means. The market is the market. But when there is competition on a commodity (item that can be remanufactured easily), supply moves the equilibrium.

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Exactly.

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Jul 6Liked by Mathew Crawford

It would appear that she Lynn Fynn has her own line of supplements. Maybe any that are not her own are subpar??? LOL. https://globalcovidsummit.org/author/lynn-fynn-md

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Jan 7Liked by Mathew Crawford

Looking forward to watching the video. Thanks for sharing.

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To see the best research on the immune system's need for 50 ng/mL (125 nmol/L) 25-hydroxyvitamin D: https://vitamindstopscovid.info/00-evi/ . Without proper vitamin D3 supplementation, most people have half or less of this. Those with dark or black skin living far from the equator often have 10 ng/mL or less.

See https://vitamindstopscovid.info/00-evi/#00-how-much for New Jersey based Professor of Medicine Sunil Wimalawansa's vitamin D3 supplemental intake quantity recommendations to attain at least 50 ng/mL 25-hydroxyvitamin D without the need for blood tests or medical supervision. These are ratios of body weight, with higher ratios for those suffering from obesity.

For 70 kg (154 lb) body weight, 0.125 milligram (5000 IU) a day is sufficient, though it takes two months or so to raise the 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels over 50 ng/mL from typical starting levels such as 20 ng/mL.

This is a gram every 22 years - and the ex-factory cost of pharma grade vitamin D3 is about USD$2.50 a gram. It needs to be made into once a week or once every 10 days capsules.

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Spot on! Why doesn’t the author focus on the outrageous prices on branded Rx drugs that is a 500!billion dollar business? Paid to discredit vitamins?

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How did I discredit vitamins? By sharing am economics lesson?

Huh

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deletedJan 7·edited Jan 7
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"There is a lot about your substack that misses the real issues here."

Actually, I think you've completely misread my article, and inserted your own internal thoughts. Almost nothing that you say here makes me think that you read the words that I wrote. It's as if you formulated a straw man in your mind, entirely detached from my article, then lectured me about the straw man.

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deletedJan 7
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"It’s that you didn’t consider"

I did, but it's not germaine to any point in this article. Yes, it's a straw man. I made no anti-vitamin argument, and have written articles and given talks on the importance of vitamins relative to disease state and with COVID-19 patient statistics in particular.

I really think that you need to read the article carefully. You may be hallucinating words that aren't there.

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thanks! and this is interesting, about how Vit D supplementation, and the other common supplements during covid, can lead to Vit A and copper deficiency. Does this make sense to you? "But another lesser known possibility is relative vitamin A deficiency.

Yes, Vitamin A, not Vitamin D.

Vitamin A is important for immunity, especially from mycoplasma. It’s a fat soluble vitamin and what makes this an even more likely culprit in many cases is that so many people have been heavily supplementing with Vitamin D for the last 3 years, and Vitamin D supplementation can lead to deficiencies of Vitamins A, E and K, since all 4 of these fat soluble vitamins compete for absorption.

So the cure of the last pandemic could have set some people up for this outbreak.

The most common supplement regimen during and after COVID was Vitamin C, D, Zinc and Quercetin.

The other nutritional imbalance that this regimen can trigger is a deficiency of copper due to prolonged Zinc suppelementation.

Signs of copper deficiency also include immunodeficiency evidenced by low white blood cell count and thyroid problems, anemia, weak bones, irregular heartbeat, and loss of pigment from the skin."

- https://blog.mygotodoc.com/p/mystery-pneumonia-aka-white-lung

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Agree about D for sure. Since D is the "Sunshine Vitamin" I wonder what the effect would be upon the evolution of human population, across generations, as they adapted to a mass, seasonal Vitamin D deficiency moving further and further away from the equator. Could it be, the humanity we experience now? I wonder.

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Having owned a retail business for 15yrs your question of how much a $3.50 item should retail for depends on a multitude of factors. If overhead is reasonable and product turnover is brisk a two to three time markup is reasonable.

However, when marketing comes into play and brand building is successful the sky is the limit. Rolex watches are the highest margin consumer product on the market because Rolex’s obsession with building a brand has paid off.

On a more grass rootsy level the markup on eyeglass frames can be 25-50-100 times their cost. There are levels to everything.

A bottle of vitamin C that retails for $9.99 is probably manufactured in the same facility that slaps on different labels indicating well known brands retailing the same thing for $19.99.

Dr. Berg on YouTube has built an empire with his popular videos and supplement sales. The fear drummed up over Covid-19 is an easy driver for Drs hawking cure-alls to pickup where mRNA injections leave off.

Undoubtedly a market sprang up for alternatives to big pharma that if a doctor markets his or herself correctly can parlay into a lucrative revenue stream.

Highly marked up herbs and vitamins aren’t nearly as nefarious as the alternatives to 5G radiation and snake venom remedies.

I’ll probably get shellacked for saying it but while I do think viruses are real and that people were actually sickened by strategically placed viral chimeras, I also think there’s a fair bit of neuroticism mixed in that is ongoing due to the phantom of fictitious variants whereby every sniffle, twinge of pain and forgetfulness is latent covid rising up to claim another victim!

My feeling is if you’re wearing nicotine patches, lining your bedroom in a faraday cage, or buying tremendously overpriced supplements THREE YEARS after the plandemonium you’re playing right into the hands of oligarchs who wish to completely revamp the economic system and way we are governed.

Just give covid the middle finger and move on. Every time we worry about it it’ll never end. Reminds me of the end of the film Ferris Bueller's Day Off when he breaks the fourth wall looks at the audience and says, “You’re still here? Go home. It’s over.”

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All good, but that Faraday cage ... I am toying with the idea, seriously.

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The question "What is the fair retail price for vitamins that cost $3.50?" is secondary to the question of "Do they do their own testing or have an independent lab test every batch?". That is where the costs really climb.

The vast majority of supplements are not tested to show what they contain is what is on the label. The manufacturers do their tests and that's good enough for the resellers in most cases. That leaves them open to fraud. The saying in the industry is "There's gold in them thar pills".

Decades ago one group that had some bad products with way more in the pills than was on the label did the right thing. They bought the equipment to test and verify ALL batches they receive. They put in their contract that they would test and an independent lab would also test every batch. If it wasn't the quality promised they wouldn't pay and the manufacturer could take it back at their own expense. Some of the manufacturers withdrew their bids to supply them.

The testing equipment and training costs a lot (and so do the independent labs) so most places don't do any. You can find reasonably priced supplements that are tested thoroughly but you've got to look.

As always "Food first". Get most of your nutrition from food. They are called "supplements" not "replacements" for a reason.

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If you're making the argument that there isn't a crap ton of profit in the pricing, you're incorrect. I have talked with numerous people who credibly told similar stories, including the fact that Zelenko alone made $15M to $30M (I've heard two numbers multiple times) for his marketing efforts. What does that mean in totality? I suspect that the profit share has amounted to hundreds of millions.

Maybe they can fund some of the lawsuits?

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Did you miss the line "There's gold in them thar pills"?

Even with proper testing there's a lot of money in it. The fact is that testing does cost a lot and the vast majority just don't bother to further enhance their profits.

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I watched the Zelenko circus from Japan, a nation whose Covid mortality rate was 1/14th that of the U.S. ('until' the vaccines were implemented) Quite remarkable given the population density; a large population of elderly and infirm people; and the annual incursion of Chinese tourists in February/March 2020. During the 2+ years of pandemic measures, the only Covid-related deaths that occurred in my large social and business network were related to the vaccine, suicide or delayed medical care. Yes, people did test positive but their symptoms were minimal or they received early medical care (standard remedies for respiratory infections). I could not understand 'how' the Z-stack was averting death other than as a prophylaxis that caused people not to seek 'deadly' U.S. healthcare. The figures you cite above are truly obscene!!!

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Everyone deserves to make (earn) a living, but When motivation seems to divert from save humanity to profit...for me it takes things down a few notches.

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Ultimately, profit is the result of the application of technology. Technology must be developed and deployed broadly by any ecosystem competing with the status quo.

What gets ugly is when profit encourages the problem. Are there those in the MFM...glad for the arrival of the plandemonium? Okay, but if profiteering requires a monopoly (and it does, basically), then everyone is simultaneously responsible.

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Matthew, You see it in much more sophisticated ways/layers than i do. It seems what started out as motivation to address “everyone deserves to have free choice to how they will pursue or manage their health so i will provide them options based on experiential/anecdotal/tested information”, to “now that i have established my reputation to help people make informed health decisions at no cost to them i shall add another option that does cost and will profit me.” Tech can help scale the product and reach, but without that changed motivation…not saying it’s bad or wrong to make money, but my goodness, to price a $3.50 product at $55-$65 dollars seems, by my simple take, to be a bit over the top.

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Jan 7Liked by Mathew Crawford

Yeah you could buy each individual supplement, repackage them for pennies on the dollar, and distribute them to all your loved ones, family, and friends. That's what I did and have been doing for 26 years but I'm a university biomedical scientist, herbalist, rn, and mastergardener.

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Would you be willing to give us a list of what you buy, and where, and how you apportion them?

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Jan 7·edited Jan 7

Just get what you can afford and what resonates with you. Use flccc.net, worldcouncilforhealth.org, zstackforlife.com, twc.health, and truthforhealth.org treatment and detox protocols. Look at the ingredients in the combination products then buy them individualy and follow the instructions on the bottles.

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Interesting. I consider the garden as my master.

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I am a nutritionist and I don’t support the use of MLM brands b/c typically the people who sell/push them don’t have enough knowledge/skill to determine if it’s right for you as an individual. I’m not set on any one brand-just what’s right for the client and I don’t even determine that until after a very thorough and detailed consult. Supplements are a big business, many are expensive and some are adulterated /counterfeit (often the cheaper brands or some sold on Amazon). Hence, important to have a professional to guide you. More often than not I’m taking supplements out of a new clients regimen b/c of either poor quality or they just don’t need them. The Wellness company is not selling anything new. I’ve been recommending nattokinase and lumbrokinase to specific clients for years. What they have done though is put certain nutrients into one blend. Not much different than many other products on the market.

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Jan 7·edited Jan 7

In case it isn't obvious, most of the companies people have brand familiarity with, be it anything from vitamins to say house paint don't always - and often never - make their own product.

Marketing, brand recognition, and a team of lawyers go a long way for a company with little other overhead to set the market prices for their products; and then to convince the ignorant their product is the best.

On the flipside, there are countless production facilities with the knowhow to make the products and with no desire to do all the aggressive marketing, so the producers very much need the hucksters.

The best approach to counter the hucksters?

Don't be a sucker. Presume that the manipulation is everywhere, and if you are going to buy a product, know why and be honest with your level of satisfaction.

Not every sales pitch is a manipulation, but most are.

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